Gadgets & Tech – The question is, will it go far enough -- or better put, can we truly trust the fox to watch the hen-house?
I am at a loss to the article. If an impairment of free speech is the cause of alarm, common sense will prevail.
Other than that I have no opinion other that another governmnet employment agency to warrant a higher pay scale at taxpayer expense. If so get a real job!!
Net Neutrality is more about keeping the Internet the infinite repository of information (and misinformation) than it is about free speech, but if net neutrality is lost, you can say goodbye to free speech on the Net.
Here's a good discussion to the concept:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_neutrality
In essence, if the anti NN people win the day, then bandwidth gets partitioned to those who pay the most to get it. Sites that don't produce a big revenue stream will increasingly be sidelined by lack of bandwidth. And since Free Speech applies to public networks and government publications, not to private publishers, that would kill free speech.
There's a bandwidth problem now with loading pages that have advertisers that make you wait before the rest of the page can be loaded. Many times I've had a page waiting for another site to respond and it just seems to hang up for a little while but it seems like an eternality. Just wonder if they are allowing that advertiser enough bandwidth or he's too cheap to pay for it.
There is no question we need more bandwidth. And there is also no question that, for the foreseeable future we will use all we can get then cry for more. But NN has NOTHING to do with that. The Anti NN crowd have no interest in boosting bandwidth, just controlling what is now available so it all fits their economic best interests.
Nelson - ."..impairment of free speech is the cause of alarm..." That is certainly part of it, but there is a little more to it than that.
This is an attempt by big business ISP providers to harness the internet to their bottom lines as an exclusive product.
Right now you can google a keyword and get millions of hits from all sorts of web sites. If AT&T gets its way you'll only get hits on the sites that have paid AT&T for the priviledge of being a hit.
This is an issue of stifling competition and tilting everything in the direction of the big money interests. If some of the big boys (i.e. AT&T) get their way, there will be no internet startups or innovative little guys unless the Big Boys are involved or paid off.
This may be a foolish question but how could let's say AT&T control my results unless they are my ISP? I can understand how a Google or ASK can control the hits on your request but I cannot understand how an outside party can control it unless they're your ISP.
The Net is a DNS, Domain Naming System. If a large POP site (Point of Presence they are on the East, West Coast and a few other places in the Midwest and South) is excluded by the dominate Net Backbone providers from getting certain IP addressed traffic back to you, or very slowly it impacts you. In essence they reduce what is called the GOS (Grade of Service) so that everyones views of the Nets Domain's becomes limited. They don't do it by blocking specific traffic by IP address so much as by limiting whose traffic they will carry on their portion of the Net backbone.
Clear as Mud, EH?
LOL
Go Tiger!
(:>)
Yeah, clear as mud. This is new to me because I never got into the working part of the network. I always wondered what my money that I paid for service was used for.
Oh, sorry about your Jayhawks
The money you pay to your ISP gets you access through your ISP Servers to the NET itself.
The Internet is nothing more than a Network of Networks all tied together.
From your ISP on, your traffic (broken up into packets) goes all over the place through the NET and back.
Check out http://www.warriorsofthe.net/
Download the video, its long, but real great at explaining how it gets done.
Go Tiger!
(:>)
A better question to ask in all this is 'What websites have the government already blocked from our view?' Our providers have to follow their rules.
Its' not a question of websites being blocked by the gov.
Conspiracy Theories don't fly here.
This is about who gets access. POP level equal access at the Top Level Domain without being charged for that access.
The gov blocking or even trying to block Websites has nothing to do with this.
The Gov couldn't do it even if they wanted to with the CURRENT design and implementation of the Web, except by flooding, which would be easily detected and stopped.
Go Tiger!
(:>)
You're probably right about the government not blocking web sites but I think the "Conspiracy Theories don't fly here." comment was out of order here because all this is new to everyone. As far as the government not being able to block web sites, you only have to look to China to see that it can be done but not without anyone knowing about it. ISP's can be programed like a firewall that could stop you from receiving some web sites.
LOL
Close but no cigar. Look at my earlier post and answer to your question preceding.
The net is an OPEN DNS Packet Switching System. The reason the Chinese can block certain traffic is that they CONTROL ALL traffic into and out of CHINA. It has to go through Chinese GOVERNMENT run and controlled sites.
Not so here and most other countries of the world.
So here the network is OPEN and flows many different directions. A packet or group of packets from your machine to your ISP can take many routes after leaving your ISP to hit the IP Address it is looking for and get a reply.
Gov does not control that here. The control the Telcos want would be to limit whose traffic they will or will not carry, thus limiting the number of paths the packets have to travel to the server you wanna hit and back. This drops the GOS (Grade of Service) and really slows down traffic coming back to your ISP and then to you. To the point that by Protocol packets may just be tossed.
How can China control all traffic in and out of the country if not by ISPs?
LOL
The traffic into and out of China has to get there and back. The Chinese Gov limits that traffic because they control all the networks into and out of the country.
Holler at me on e-mail and I'll explain it to you. Not trying to be a smart A$$ here, but, this is what I did professionally for years. Networking stuff. All over the world.
Go Tiger!!
(:>)
Link broken for anyone else?
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,2107354,00...
That's where I find the article.
Folks Not to be chest pounding here but would like to share some information with you that might be very informative. When I was in the Telcomm biz I got the chance to work with lots of those guys, Cerf, Faber, Tim Berners-Lee, back in the day when the NET was just being put together. Yes I am older than dirt--LOL. To see how it all works go to this site:warriorsofthe.net/ and download the video. It's great! Best thing I have ever seen on Packet Switching (which is what the Net is). It shows what happens in your office or home network, then on to the Net itself and back. That might help you understand why it is so important to keep the "NET" Neutral and OPEN. SBC which now owns AT&T used to be a big customer of mine and I know of what I speak. Ed Ehitacre, the CEO, wants to charge customers for carrying traffic on AT&T's (SBC's) Network. They carry a bunch of it across the country. Its a bad deal for us users. Support Net Neutrality! (:>)
Too bad the Democraps are not much better than the Repugnants when it comes to upholding and defending the Constitution and in particular, standing up to the corporate lobbies and protecting the people's rights to free speech.
If either of these two corrupt monopoly parties had any decency the depredations of the FCC would be kept in check by legislation which firmed up the matter that the net be neutral and free of trespass by monopolistic malefactors.
Agreed!
The thing here is that the Capitalist System Free Market place has been the driver of services, to some degree, for many years.
In the case of the Net, which is Open, there may have to be some sort of regulation to prevent control and limiting of access by the AT&T (SBC)operation.
DO NOT be surprised if some members of the House/Senate introduce a bill to keep the Net open. As it was intended and should continue to be.
Go Tiger!
(:>)
What about M2Z networks proposal to the FCC to provide Free broadband to all of us
I saw something on that and didn't get to take it all in.
I just don't see how they can provide it. Even if they lease unused "dark" fiber from all the networks that are out there with it to lease. The cost would be incredible. But, they may have figured out a way to do it.
If it comes around I wanna be first in line to get it, right behind you. LOL
Go Tiger!
(:>)
I don't trust the FCC at all, but at least the government is taking steps to ensure the internet is open and free and not attempting to regulate it.
The FCC, however, has long been unduely biased towards small minority opinions (IE a single complaint is enough to initiate indecency proceedings) and the industry's lapdog. In my opinion the best thing the government could do for the internet is to deregulate it entirely, and use existing antitrust laws if providers begin to engage in anticompetitive or anti-free-speech activities. As well as binding all US companies, not just telcoms, to obey US laws regarding freedom of speech and forbidding them to cooperate with restrictive governments.
The US has the power to push for, indeed demand, a global free internet, I say we use it.
All this means is that everyone will pay more to use the web.
I just recieved a $200 dollar cable bill and do not hardly ever watch television. Criminal!
No more regulation only the sky is the limit.
Maybe I can start charging people $1000 just to run up to Wawa or to take someone to a Dr.s appointment.
I can hear the wailing and moaning now. Yet people pay all kinds of bills and never even question why?
Don't ever trust the Fox to guard the hen house because hen's go missing!!!
Our dollar spending makes a big difference and if you are paying to much, call the company and tell them if they don't lower the fee your changing!!! I've done that and have been able to negotiate several charges!!
The power of our dollar makes the world go round (before it got devalued, now it's just America)
It would be in the best interest of We the People if the Government were to allow the Internet not to be exploited. For one time in the history of America, People are able to give their true feelings about issues concerning it's government and the way things should run. Government should not cut off it's people to the greed of monopolizing corporates and the such. Cable is way too expensive for what you get. Without it my TVs do not pick up a decent picture any more. A simple out door antenna does not work to pick up your local stations. Those corporations are making a huge profit. You have to purchase things in a package and there is no take this off so I can pay less deal. More over inflation. My Internet is way too high now. To restrict communication between the people would be more control for the wealthy.
"To restrict communication between the people would be more control for the wealthy."
I do believe they call that "censorship", I think they are scared that we can communicate freely our ideas and opinions with out any type of censorship on what we can see, read and learn.
I think they think that we shouldn't be thinking for ourselves and should continue to be spoon feed scripted media.
Great comments here folks.
Think about this point, which I heard from a wise industry sage years ago. He was at Bell Labs at the time and was developing the technologies that eventually became the Cellular Telephone System we have today.
"The great thing about the Internet is that Nobody regulates its content. The bad thing about the Internet is that nobody regulates its content."
Go Tiger!
(:>)
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At least they are asking for public input. I say let's give it to them. What say you?
Let us do just that...!
-V-
We might say, and/or ask questions:
1. With their questionable credibility, just what are these two bureaucratic red-taped behemoths (FCC and Tel-com/cable Co's) really up to now?
2. If these two really aren't trying to control and restrict access, where's the proof-in-da-puddin, with what assurances?
3. What ever happened to our 'tax brakes' provisioned for "45kbs bandwidth super-highway" fiber network infrastructure, promised to us tens of "millions of consumers" over a decade ago?
Where's the beef? When do they deliver?
Yes, and why are Americans, the "freedom" leaders(?), so slow and behind in these modern services; whereas large numbers of Europeans and Japanese have already been receiving these higher speed access usage at quite normal utility rates?
Because in Europe and Japan the gov spends a lot of money to build some of the network to provide these services. The physical size of America kinda made that economically prohibitive. Nobody wanted the gov to spend that kinud of money for years.
Here in the states the decision was made, many decades ago, to let the market, then controlled by AT&T and regulated by the gov, decide what would and would not get built.
The advent of the Net and a thing called the MFJ (modified Final Judgment)which broke AT&T into 7 Regional Bell Operating Companies (RBOC's) changed all that. Now it is in a state of flux and folks are trying to figure out how to improve the services without having to spend Gov money to build networks.
All part of the Free Enterprise Capitalist System we have here.
Go Tiger!
(:>)
hey joe, but this is like saying "we're still allowed to be ripped off" in our faces by the greedy corporation dogs, and we'll keep-on getting screw by this system you refer to as "the Free Enterprise Capitalist System" which is leaving us more and more of the unacceptable crumbs. thats just the point made by by tomahawk and alpes.. the lopped-sided inequity here for us "the people", like, what's da deal? whos gettin paid, and whos gettin the goods??
oh, btw, your "go - tar heels" got humbled by the bad bulldog hoyas, right? even i was blown away by that game.. amazing 23pt comeback.. whoa!!!!
Bah humbug to that 23 pt comeback.
Otherwise agree that the companies are screwing us and impoverishing us to fatten already excessive executive salaries.
Dont care about college basketball but, If the companies are screwing you, then dont buy from them. Simple for most, just do without the expensive of fast internet. If thats not simple enough, get ppl talking about the problem with the CO, and make them change there way. Its works the same with politicians, but I sure you knew that worked to.
Mad,
That's so trite. Let me enlighten you about the so-called "free marketplace". I used to install DSL in Detroit during the summer of 2000. The company I sub-contracted for installed DSL in several regions for a company in Colorado. Installing DSL using actual telephone lines wasn't too hard, but getting the local telephone companies to allow our routing equipment on their site became a political hassel. Every excuse was used to delay installment by our techs on their sites. Why, you may ask? Because it was a market that they envied and weren't ready, willing, and able to enter.
When I wanted DSL in my house, I contacted Earthlink. We agreed to have it installed on a certain date. When they didn't arrive, I called and asked what happened. They told me that the area were I was didn't have the capability because of the phone lines. I finally got DSL offered by Bellsouth, the regional telcom. It's the slowest DSL I know of and the most expensive. Free market? Bulldinky!
Heres a shock about Companies. They only do what makes them money. As I said before, then dont buy. They wanted to sell but they couldnt pass the politics. Politics change and money is where there heart is. Dont buy, wait. You dont have to have the best, multi-media cell phone out there if you cant afford it right. Or the next one, that come out three weeks after you bought that one. If you live in an area that doesnt offer the great things in life like cellphones, then dont buy one. We have had cable out here for about ten years but cellphones dont work out here. As soon as I found out, I quit having one. Its not that hard. I just got so close Companies to join in on complaining, using the Big CEO's to help on my and their cause. Once I did that, things changed within three years. It took time, but I didnt budge.
Mind you, I recently bought a Washer machine. During one day, I bought three washers and kept one. Lowes was the worse of the bunch. Customer Service in Joplin, MO was horrible. Short story..bought washer...told them we needed help loading..15 min...told them needed help...15 min...told them need help...10 min...returned it. Manager was at return desk at that time. Told him the problem, he was willing to give discount. My response,"How good is a discount if we cant load it." He said "I can help." I said "Why couldnt you help 40 min ago." We ended up going to Sears to buy a great washer and sewing machine later on. Dont buy, dont give your moneys away for things that can wait. BTW, we washed clothes for over the month on a washboard and tub!!!!
Mad,
As coach Balbano said, "Don't give up. Never give up."
The problem is that regulations over the telecom industry states that they share the network of traffic. In other words, the bell company in Michigan violated the agreement which allows them to do business for petty reasons.
Bellsouth installed fiberoptic lines from the house to their center. They did this in order to monopolize the services that could be added to the telephone network. This also violated that regulation.
I have other options which I'm not too comfortable with - satelite. The problem with that is we're in a region that has frequent thunderstorms for the better part of the year. Thunderstorms affect the satelite signals often. Even a small storm can affect the signal. Therefore going to ground based links is my best option.
Hurricanes are not a problem because the electricity goes. Wilma had us out for 11 days - no air conditioning, 90 deg., and 80% humidity.
Washboard huh. Been there done that.
Loverman,
I installed sats for about a year for DirecTV. I know sats have problems, but the thunderstorm thing is not much of a problem as you may have heard from the TV. You may have worse thunder storms where your at that my area, KS, MO, AR, OK. So I really dont know. Hurricanes, well yeah you will have problem as much with the sat as you will with the electric becuase who wants to watch the sat during a hurricane. Power is out, so the TV doesnt work anyways!! Thats about all I have im too tired to much farther
LOL
You've got it right up to a point. If you look at the traditional "Old" Bell network (Circuit Switched) the local phone service you paid for was real a bargain. Then the net and the MFJ came along and turned it all upside down. It provided competition, but, in practice allowed further smaller monopolies with The RBOC's. Yes it is the Free Enterprise Capitalist System and it is NOT always fair. LOL. That debate has been going on for years and will probably continue. As of right now that industry is still trying to find its way and figure out the Packet Switched Technology of the net and how to meld it with Circuit Switched.
LOL on the ballgames. Not only the Tar Heels, but, my KU Jayhawks got nailed this year. What a great Tourney though! Saw an interview with Mike Ditka during the games in Chicago. He said and I paraphrase here, "The NCAA tourney is the greatest Sports Spectacle in the country. Even better that the Super Bowl."
Go Tiger!
(:>)
And lets not forget, the deregulation and tax breaks which allowed $billions to be appropriated to this... as Joe put it "a lot of money to build some of the network to provide these services."
And under these provisions, the telcom and cable co's thereby agreed and 'promised to do' just so, providing "state-of-art fiber optics!" for us users.
So... but, here we are, more than a decade later, to see what simply amounts to 'unaccounted for billions,' and continued allowance to gouge, exploit and profiteer from us, while also now threatening to control and restrict free flow access... Again i say: where's the proof-in-da-puddin, and with what assurances?
Therefore, is "the Free Enterprise Capitalist System we have here." as it is, working out in behalf of us (or is it working us over)... for whom?
Agreed!
As it goes on the debate will continue.
From where I sit though we at least have, in many areas, higher speeds and more bandwidth available than we used to.
Can you imagine trying to be here or do anything of any serious nature on the net without High Speed Access?
Remember Dial up? I know some folks that still use it and I can't even be around them when they try and do things. Drives me nuts.
But it does help me develop more patience. LOL
Go Tiger!
(:>)